Post Info TOPIC: Do Subluxations Exist?
"Anonymous"

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Do Subluxations Exist?
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I am a practicing chiropractor from the state of New Jersey. I do not wish to write nasty comments about the doctors of chiropractic who organized this web page. Although I do not agree with their assessment of my practice objective (subluxation correction) I do respect their opinions and concerns.


I have been practicing subluxation-based chiropractic for over 22 years yet I have never actually seen a vertebral subluxation in any of the patients I have worked on. I can honestly say that none of the chiropractors I have interacted with over the past 20 years has actually ever seen a subluxation in a patient. I do not believe that there is an instrument that currently exists that can make the "invisible subluxation" visible so that the scientists, chiropractors, medical doctors, and any other healers of the world could actually have the proof they desire in order to make the conclusion that this condition actually exists.


Although I cannot physically see vertebral subluxations, I still believe these conditions exist. There are several components that define the theoretical subluxation. I will spare you the details as I know this will draw some heated remarks. 


What I am able to see in the many people that I take care of is a lot of healing, a lot of health conditions that seem to improve, people who seem to adapt better to the world and environment around them, and testimonials and referrals by hundreds of happy practice members each and every month. Am I scientific in my approach? Probably not. Am I helping these people and their families? I think that I am.


Chiropractors and the scientific medical community cannot see the subluxation and that will probably never change. Medicine cannot see a "headache" and relies on the subjective reporting of the patient to confirm its presence. Although science will never see  headaches, lumbago, depression, gravity, or a multitude of other conditions science will still accept these conditions because science can see the effects that are caused from each condition.


For me the subluxation and its correction are logical and real because I can see the effects of the condition in patients prior to and after adjustments are delivered. If this makes me a "minister" instead of a doctor in the eyes of my peers and other chiropractors then so be it.


The subluxation, although invisible to modern science, continues to play an important role in the health and well being of all human beings. Regardless of what I am labeled I will continue to do what I feel is benefical for my patients. The day that any scientist, medical doctor, or any other person can prove to me that a subluxation in a human being is 100% impossible - then and only then will I walk away from this practice objective.


In addition I would like to add that I support chiropractors who diagnose conditions and then treat their patients. This is also a part of the chiropractic family and I believe that these doctors serve their patients well. It is my hope that all chiropractors can unite in the future and work together for the benefit of humanity.



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Timothy A. Mirtz DC MSE CHES

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The day that any scientist, medical doctor, or any other person can prove to me that a subluxation in a human being is 100% impossible - then and only then will I walk away from this practice objective.


It is the job of the proponent of the concept/construct who has the burden of proof. The critic/skeptic can only point out the shortcomings. It is not the job of the scientist, medical doctor or any other person to prove that a subluxation is impossible, it is up to you to prove that it is. Until it can be demonstrated by the advocates of subluxation that provides convincing evidence, your term "theoretical" is really hypothetical.


 



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keith charlton

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"Anonymous" is the chiropractic profession's nightmare and joy.


We'd all like to be sure (I hope). But so often we must take cautious excperince as proxy. Just like surgery, psychiatry etc.


A tentative clinician's perspective that proceeds on the basis of a biologically plausible lesion is the role model for us all.


Bravo!!!



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JCS

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First of all, I don't know why this doctor feels compelled to view as "nasty" a discussion about the negative influence of Evil Vendors upon this profession's image and identity, but I've found the straight ideologues often get nasty themselves by casting aspersions upon anyone who might question the Big Hypothetical or the politics of these Evil Vendors.


Alas, it's obviously hard for chirovangelists to be objective about these problems, such as we saw when the CCE and others like myself went after the Great Academic Fraud, Big $id Williams. Lifers jump to his defense although they knew damn well he and his gang of imposters were ripping off this profession and students with their diploma mill. Instead of looking objectively at his ruse, they made similar pronouncements that any critic of Big $id was a "medipractor" or should leave the profession, etc. Then the axe fell and he was gone.


So, "Do Subluxations Exist?" is a good question. That sounds like an MD asking, "Do germs exist?" Yes, but only in perspective with alot of other co-factors of health/disease do either become a prominent problem. Spinal misalignements aren't a problem until they buckle or become dysfunction, thus illiciting the bio-mechanical responses. Just as germs are not a problem as long as the body's immunity is high, neither does a VSC become a problem until other factors exist.


Aside from this, the real issue is whether or not you make a religion of this phenonmenon. Rational Doctors of Chiropractic are willing to look objectivity at this health issue to expand their perspective whereas the chirovangelists assume the VSC is an immutable truth above question. They pronounce their metaphysics to explain this issue, "A body without nerve interference works better than one with nerve interference." So what? A body without a bullett in its brain works better than one with a hole in its head. Tell us something that we don't already know to be true.


According to Dr. Joe Keating, noted chiro historian and political pundit, when asked a similar question, gave the following answer on another discussion thread:



"I think that the issue is not rationality, per se, but rather that a majority of DCs have been sold a bill of goods: the notion that subluxation is an a priori truth (rather than an hypothesis in need of testing).  Chiropractors have spoken and written about subluxation for so long as "the chiropractic
principle" that they accept it as such.  The profession also accepts all the unsubstantiated consequences (supposed) of subluxation ideology.

"I suspect there is sufficient rationality in a goodly part of the profession (maybe a majority, maybe not) that they could appreciate the distinction between dogmatism vs. hypothesis if they could hear it offered often enough.  As we know, subluxation has heretofore been offered as a basis for
reimbursement, for professional identity, for marketing and practice management, etc.  It will take much work to repeatedly hammer away at this inappropriate basis for
chiropractic that has so long been propagated.  We're talking here about profound epistemological change in the chiro-consciousness.  It won't come overnight, of course, but persistence can make a difference, IMHO."


Aside from the issue of dogmatism vs. scientific discovery, that's not the point of this website. It's to educate the profession about the dangers of the Evil Vendors, aka, Chiropractic Coalition, that is comprised of self-serving demagogues who have molded this profession to their services and products.


Please read the Attack of the Vendors to understand this website is not here to argue the straight dogma vs. the mixer methods at all. Perhaps once even the idealistic chirovangelists understand how TR and his gang of vendors have exploited this profession, we all can unite to save not just the subluxation, but to save our profession!


May the Life Force be with you.



 



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Fred Mansfield, D.C.

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Dr. Mirtz,


I agree with your analysis that it is the responsibility of the theory's proponents or supporters to provide proof for their claims. However, "anonymous" states that in his or her "opinion" the criteria for the existence of subluxation is satisfied because he or she can measure the effects the condition seems to be producing on certain patients. This is not scientific proof but it is a form of deductive reasoning which is also utilized very often in forming various medical conclusions.


For example, many forms of cancer treatment that are currently being utilized by the medical profession cannot be scientifically validated to be "cures." Many of these treatments remain on the market and are being prescribed by physicians even though the mechanisms that lead to their pharmacological effects are not completely understood in all instances. Their effectiveness or non effectiveness on patients, whatever the case may be, is measured by the research scientists and this ultimately determines if the product will be utilized as a particular therapy.


Even though science and medical research has never figured out how to "cure" conditions of sickness they still continue to utilize many procedures that are, in many instances, only partially effective and in other scenarios not effective at all. Chemotherapeutic agents along with radiation therapy are known to be non-effective on many forms of cancer, yet they are often used. Many types of cancers as well as their causes are not completely understood by scientists, yet medicine still employs treatment protocols and has been granted the exclusive license to make health management decisions for patients. This is not science! Science is something that can reproduce the same or similar results every time the process is engaged. Medicine and more specifically allopathic medicine is a large compilation of theories and science has yet to prove conclusively that all of these ideas are valid. Many medical doctors have been quoted throughout the years stating that "medicine is not an exact science." Something either is or is not a science. There is no middle of the road status. How can something be an "inexact science?" This doesn't make sense. If I have a glass of water and I place it in an environment where the temperature is lowered to 32 degrees (F) I know that the water will solidify into ice. This will happen over and over again no matter how often I repeat the process. This is an example of science.


It is quite true that the vertebral subluxation theory remains unproven by current scientific standards but the same can be said for many of the ingriedient theories that make up the loaf of bread known as allopathic medicine. Healthcare consumers still eat from that loaf of bread and sometimes they get more than just a little indigestion from the meal. Until we can totally prove that the concept of subluxation absolutely, 100%, without a doubt, no chance in heck is a fraud - we must continue to embrace it. The measurable effects observed in patients, from the theoretical subluxation model, dictates that we continue to do so!


I think that many practitioners in the chiropractic profession are too quick to dismiss the subluxation theory as nonsense. There are too many positive effects being observed in patients all over the world that are under this mode of proposed healthcare and because of this fact we need to continue to look into this theory. Patients would not continue to see a practitioner on a regular basis for ten or fifteen years unless they perceived some kind of benefit from the service. The concept of subluxation would have died a long time ago if it was a complete misrepresentation of the truth as you and others have implied. This theory has been attacked ever since it came out yet it still survives - and not because it is promoted by faith healers and priests. There is also that slim possibility, just the slightest chance, that you and others who attack the subluxation concept might be wrong. Because of this possibility, no matter how small it might be, we cannot and should not throw the theory away.


Yes, there may be charlatans in the straight chiropractic profession who are out to serve their own interests. Every profession has these individuals and they make it extremely tough for the rest of the people in the profession who are not in that same category of deceit. Only the individual in question can look in the mirror and know what his or her true intentions are.



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Timothy A. Mirtz DC MSE CHES

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However, "anonymous" states that in his or her "opinion" the criteria for the existence of subluxation is satisfied because he or she can measure the effects the condition seems to be producing on certain patients. This is not scientific proof but it is a form of deductive reasoning which is also utilized very often in forming various medical conclusions.


Deductive reasoning has a lot of error and bias involved. How do we know that he is not suffering from selection bias ie selecting only those cases where he sees only a positive response and fails to recall negative and unresponsive cases?


Also this type of logic is not really logic because if positive effects can be seen then logic dictates that negative effects as well as unresponsive effects will be seen as well.



For example, many forms of cancer treatment that are currently being utilized by the medical profession cannot be scientifically validated to be "cures."


This is a sham excuse and is the logical fallacy of tu quoquo or "you do it too". It is an attempt by illogical thinking DC's to conclude that their hypothetical does not really need to be demonstrated because (fill in the blank) cannot be scientifically validated. If I was to put all my eggs into one basket I would make damn sure that it could be adequately demonstrated. Also, your example falls flat that if the cancer treatment is found to be ineffective they will look for another one and another explanation. They will perform critical studies of it and on it and let the weight of evidence decide for them. They will not use the excuse of "hey, the chiropractors and palm readers cannot validate their subluxation, so we are just as well."


 


Many of these treatments remain on the market and are being prescribed by physicians even though the mechanisms that lead to their pharmacological effects are not completely understood in all instances. Their effectiveness or non effectiveness on patients, whatever the case may be, is measured by the research scientists and this ultimately determines if the product will be utilized as a particular therapy.


Well guess what, you just said it yourself when you stated:is measured by the research scientists and this ultimately determines if the product will be utilized as a particular therapy.



Even though science and medical research has never figured out how to "cure" conditions of sickness they still continue to utilize many procedures that are, in many instances, only partially effective and in other scenarios not effective at all.


Logical fallacy of "they do it too."


It is quite true that the vertebral subluxation theory remains unproven by current scientific standards but the same can be said for many of the ingriedient theories that make up the loaf of bread known as allopathic medicine.


What is the difference between chiropractic and medicine? Medicine strives to work out their problems; chiropractic explains them away.


Until we can totally prove that the concept of subluxation absolutely, 100%, without a doubt, no chance in heck is a fraud - we must continue to embrace it. The measurable effects observed in patients, from the theoretical subluxation model, dictates that we continue to do so!


After 100 plus years this is the best that can be said? This is SAD.



I think that many practitioners in the chiropractic profession are too quick to dismiss the subluxation theory as nonsense.


I am not quick to dismiss it; it's just that there is no evidence for it.


There are too many positive effects being observed in patients all over the world that are under this mode of proposed healthcare and because of this fact we need to continue to look into this theory.


Wrong. Positive effects from manipulation does not prove that a subluxation exists.


Patients would not continue to see a practitioner on a regular basis for ten or fifteen years unless they perceived some kind of benefit from the service.


Are they going in because they perceive subluxation, as based on health belief models and health behavioral models to be a factor in health or is it because of the deemed benefit of manipulation? The point is that only chiropractors care about subluxation, no one else does.


The concept of subluxation would have died a long time ago if it was a complete misrepresentation of the truth as you and others have implied.


There are also people who believe that aliens have landed on this planet from another galaxy. According the Science and Engineering census, people are still believing in unsubstantiated things such as ghosts, talking to the dead, UFO's landing and alien abductions. The only people who have kept this subluxation nonsense alive is who? Chiropractors.


This theory has been attacked ever since it came out yet it still survives - and not because it is promoted by faith healers and priests. There is also that slim possibility, just the slightest chance, that you and others who attack the subluxation concept might be wrong.


Well then, demonstrate scientifically that this subluxation exists and is a factor in health and that intervention of it will produce the desired results speculated. Don't sit there and tell me I am wrong when it is YOU, Y-O-U, who has to provide convincing evidence.


But I will give you a start because I am a nice guy. Show me, as it pertains to this subluxation:


a. biological plausibility;


b. consistency;


c. dose response;


d. temporal sequence;


e. strength of association;


f. strength of evidence;


 


 Because of this possibility, no matter how small it might be, we cannot and should not throw the theory away.


You mean keep it around like alien abductions, right? Just in case we actually catch an alien stealing someone in the night and before they are able to do those evil experiments on them, right? You know, is it better to catch the alien before he takes someone out of bed or right when they are tucking them back in bed?


Until you clowns are able to demonstrate your comedy, until you are able to demonstrate that this subluxation is real and has and is a real risk factor, then I would suggest that formulating health policy in and around it is unproductive.


Only the individual in question can look in the mirror and know what his or her true intentions are.


Hitler and his cronies thought they were doing the right thing, did you know that? Well, same can be true of straight chiropractic. These folks actually believe they are doing the right thing thus making the "looking in the mirror" as unrealistic.



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Robert Hadley, D.C.

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Originally posted by: Timothy A. Mirtz DC MSE CHES

 Until you clowns are able to demonstrate your comedy, until you are able to demonstrate that this subluxation is real and has and is a real risk factor, then I would suggest that formulating health policy in and around it is unproductive. Only the individual in question can look in the mirror and know what his or her true intentions are.


Dr. Mirtz,


I think that the burden of proof has shifted to you. You are the one who states that the subluxation concept is a complete farce. Prove your hypothesis using your own scientific research. Show us the absolute proof that completely rules out this concept. I am talking 100% absolute proof. Can you prove, without a doubt, that subluxations are not real?


By the way in case the circus fans are keeping score - the clowns are winning the contest against Dr. Mirtz.


 


 



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Dr. Simmons

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Dr. Mirtz is never going to back down from his position. He hates straight chiropractic and it does not matter how logical an argument is, he will not budge from his true religion and love: The Church of Allopathic Medicine. If there are other straights out there reading this garbage you might as well quit because this is real "Yellow Journalism" in production. I'm out of here - I've got patients to see and subluxations to correct!!


 


 



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Timothy A. Mirtz DC MSE CHES

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I think that the burden of proof has shifted to you. You are the one who states that the subluxation concept is a complete farce.


Yup, it is a farce because; 1. no one can agree on what it is; 2. there is no credible evidence for it; 3. it cannot remotely be considered a risk factor or a causal agent; 4. it is at a point in which I can make it up as I go along;


It is a like playing "Pin the tail on the donkey"; the problem here is the subluxation-based folks are not wearing a blindfold on their eyes, but on their minds.


In fact, subluxation is a concept like the equator and north and south poles. They are merely concepts because there is no actual equatorial line around the earth nor are there poles sticking up out of the ground in the frigid lands of the artic and antartic circles (hey, another one, circles).


Prove your hypothesis using your own scientific research. Show us the absolute proof that completely rules out this concept. I am talking 100% absolute proof. Can you prove, without a doubt, that subluxations are not real?


Again, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate with convincing data NOT up to me. It's like this, if you believe that UFO's landed in Roswell New Mexico, it is up to you to provide the evidence that it did happen NOT up to me to tell you that it didn't happen.

By the way in case the circus fans are keeping score - the clowns are winning the contest against Dr. Mirtz.


Only in your deluded little mind.


Dr. Mirtz is never going to back down from his position. He hates straight chiropractic and it does not matter how logical an argument is, he will not budge from his true religion and love: The Church of Allopathic Medicine.


There are no logical arguments in chiropractic from the faith-based members of the "church of chiropractic" (or is it "the first church of the adjustment"?


If there are other straights out there reading this garbage you might as well quit because this is real "Yellow Journalism" in production. I'm out of here - I've got patients to see and subluxations to correct!!


Run straight boy, run away. Always use the argument that "I have patients to see";


Hey, I am wondering, if these straights are soooo busy adjusting subluxations, how come they have time to read message boards, read WCA trash, have time to travel to chiropractic seminars?



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JCS

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Arguing the Subluxation Hypothesis is equivalent to arguing the Germ Theory--neither stand alone, neither are completely understood, and both have proponents and critics.


My bane with the "straight" sect is multifaceted:



  1. Some straights like Big $id have made it into a cult with Innatism as their diety, hence the term "chirovangelism."

  2. Some "objective" straights who don't subscribe to chirovangelism mistakenly think an adjustment alone will cure the world of all dis-ease.

  3. Some straights have an antipathy toward modalities for no good reason other than their dogma.

  4. Some straights think an adjustment alone will rehab a spine.

  5. Politically, straights are the obstructionists to expanding our scope of care and unity.

When these straights understand there's more to spinal care than a pop and a prayer to Innate, when they understand the need to eliminate cultism from our image, when they realize health and disease are multifaceted, and when they drop their anti-social dogma, perhaps then they won't be ostracized as outdated chiro-therapists who are clueless about many issues.


In the meantime, they appear as Jehovah Witnesses who have separate values, doomsday philosophy, and anti-social tendencies.


But the issue of this website is NOT to bash straights as much as to EXPOSE the lunacy of Terry Rongberg, the Great Impersonator. Let's not forget he is the main cause of discord and dissension as he acts like a demagogue to stir emotions to sell his wares. He's a fraud, yet he acts as the spokesman for Subluxation-based DCs, which is a lie. He's assumed that role with his implied authority, but he doesn't represent anyone other than his 240 sycophants in the WCA.


May the Life Force be with you.



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Beano

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What's a subluxation?

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Paul Lee

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quote:

Originally posted by: Beano

"What's a subluxation?"


There are two types:


1. The orthopedic subluxation. It is the only one accepted in the medical and scientific world. It is commonly defined as a "partial dislocation", pure and simple. Period. An asymmetrical joint doesn't equal an orthopedic subluxation, since it's still within the normal ROM.


It has little or no effect on general health, but affects the joint involved, and anything involved with that joint and its function. It has no philosophical, metaphysical, or biotheological aspects. It doesn't separate man from God.


 


2. The "chiropractic subluxation":


"Palmer did not employ the term subluxation in its medical sense, but with a metaphysical, pantheistic meaning. He believed that the subluxations interfered with the body's expression, of the "Universal Intelligence" (God), which Palmer dubbed the "Innate Intelligence." (soul, spirit, or spark of life). Palmer's notion of having discovered a way to manipulate metaphysical life force is sometimes referred to as his "biotheology."" - William T. Jarvis, PhD
http://www.chirobase.org/01General/controversy.html


The chiropractic use of the term is inaccurate. The word can't have two meanings, a chiropractic one and a medical/orthopedic one. We believe in the medical/orthopedic definition, and reject the chiropractic misnomer, which is a metaphysical concept:


ChiroLinks
http://chirolinks.quackfiles.com


Chirotalk(SM): The Skeptical Chiropractic Discussion Forum
http://chirotalk.proboards3.com/index.cgi

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Timothy A. Mirtz DC MSE CHES

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***This Mirtz is such an idiot.***


It's Dr Mirtz to you.


***I wonder just what it is that he does on his patients (the 15-20) he sees each week.***


Why do you care how many patients per week I see and what I do?


***What do you tell your patients coming in your office?***


What do you care?


***I am not a chiroevangelist, i am only treating conditions and diseases with ????  Obviously, he never adjust anyone, so i wonder, is he doing massage?***


How do you know I am not using manipulative therapy in practice?


 


 





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Paul Lee, PT

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quote:

Originally posted by: Mark

What do you tell your patients coming in your office?


I can't answer for Tim, but G. Douglas Andersen, who is a very sensible and well-known chiropractor, practicing in Brea, California, makes some very interesting remarks on his website:






Manipulation
 


Only where you need it

 


Only when you need it

 


Only when you want it

 


Only if it feels good

 


Only if it helps


 


  • No pressure to return

  • You come in when you need to

  • You let us know what types of treatment work the best for you

  • If we cannot help you, we will find the doctor or therapist who can


    Solving Problems with Fewer Visits


  • http://www.andersenchiro.com/ChiroServices.htm


     


    Needless to say he doesn't treat "subluxations", and isn't a "wellness" chiro.


    For more about Doug Andersen:


    http://www.geocities.com/healthbase/doug_andersen.html



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    Timothy A. Mirtz DC MSE CHES

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    ***Below is the disclaimer on the referal site for this Mirtz idiot;***


    There are also other chiropractors on this site as well.


    But let's look at the referral guidelines you don't like.


    ***My practice is limited to the care of musculoskeletal problems. I may also counsel patients about lifestyle improvements and give practical science-based tips about the management of common ailments. My approach to back pain parallels the AHC PR Clinical Practice Guidelines that lie within the scope of chiropractic. For medical problems outside my scope, I refer patients to appropriate physicians.***


    You don't do this?



    ***I publicly endorse immunization, fluoridation, and other standard public health measures.***


    You don't do this? What position are you in to not endorse such?


    ***I reject biotheistic notions that "subluxations" and/or "nerve interference" are the cause or underlying cause of disease.***


    You believe that nerve interference (whatever that is) is the underlying cause of disease? How come people with low back pain or a disc herniation with grade I, or II or III neuralgia do not have a higher rate of segmentally related disease complexes?


    ***I do not make claims about curing diseases.***


    You make claims curing disease?


    ***I do not try to get patients to sign contracts for lengthy treatment, promote regular "preventive" adjustments, use scare tactics, or disparage scientific medical treatment.***


    You make patients sign contracts for lengthy care? You use "preventive adjustments"? May I ask what you are trying to prevent? You disparage scientific medicine?


    ***I do not routinely perform or order x-ray examinations because most patients do not need them. I do not utilize 14" x 36" full-spine x-ray examinations.***


    You order x-rays on all of your patients? You should be able to figure out the diagnosis in 70% of your cases based on the history and physical examination alone.


    ***I do not offer or advocate the use of Biological Terrain Assessment, computerized "nutrient deficiency" testing, contact reflex analysis, contour analysis (also called moire contourography), cytotoxic testing, other improper allergy testing, blind spot mapping, el ectrodermal screening, Functional Intracellular Analysis (FIA), hair analysis, herbal crystallization analysis, iridology, leg-length testing (to check for "subluxations"), live blood cell analysis (also called nutritional blood analysis or Hemaview), testing with a Nervo-Scope, Nutrabalance, NUTRI-SPEC, pendulum divination, ref lexology, saliva testing, spinal ultrasound testing to "measure progress," surface electromyography (SEMG), thermography, testing with a Toftness device, weighing on a twin-scale device ( Spinal Analysis Machine), or any other diagnostic procedure that is unsubstantiated and lacks a scientifically plausible rationale.***


    You use this junk?



    ***I do not utilize or promote acupun cture for treating disease. I do not use or advocate the use of Activator Methods, applied kinesiology, Bio Energetic Synchronization Technique (B.E.S.T.), chelation therapy, Chiropractic Biophysics® (CBP®), colonic irrigation, cr anial or craniosacral therapy, laser acupuncture, magnetic or biomagnetic therapy, Neuro Emotional Technique (NET), Neural Organization Technique (NOT), NeuroCranial Restructuring (NCR), or any other treatment modality that is unsubstantiated and lacks a scientifically plausible rationale. I do not "prescribe" home opathic products. I do not sell or promote the use of unproven dietary supplements or herbal products for the treatment of disease.***


    You use this junk?


    ***An actual chiropractor, who publicly endorses immunization and flouridation.  What a great 'Doctor' he is.***


    How come medical doctors publicaly endorse immunization?


    ***By the way, he is not making a living off of patients, but if paid enough, he will testify against you, or get paid to turn down your insurance claims.***


    How do you know how I make a living? Tell me, I would like to know.


    ***GET OUT OF MY BELOVED PROFESSION YOU IDIOT!!  No body wants you in chiropractic!***


    I was actually going to tell you the same thing. It might be wise for you to get out of the profession because folks like you keep it marginalized.



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    James

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    I can't answer for Tim, but G. Douglas Andersen, who is a very sensible and well-known chiropractor, practicing in Brea, California, makes some very interesting remarks on his website:



    That's the kind of chiropractor I like to go to.  A doctor with the right treatments for specific problems, not a salesman.  Until today, I had been going to a large chiro clinic with multiple doctors.  They did the same manipulations every time and I continued to have sciatic pain severely.  In fact, every time I left I felt even worse the same evening. I have not slept for 5 days straight as the pain is incessant.  I even asked the doc to go easy on me but she never did, and never seemed to address the specific issue, i.e. my right lower back, butttock, leg and foot. 

    When I first started they told me it would take 48 visits to sort me out!  Then another lady sat me down and we talked money.  It was like buying a car.  Once I realized that this was not helping, and quite possibly aggravating my condition, I cancelled my appointments.  And I know drugs are bad, but I have been in so much pain that I simply don't care.  I need to sleep.  The chiro always told me that I just had to "tough it out".  Well, I got some Medrol (steroid) today.  I don't want to take it, but what choice do I have?  I've been to three different chiropractors offices, all with a different approach, and still have no relief.  So now, drugs, MRI, and who knows what else. 

    I'm not a chiropractor.  But I'm an engineer and understand how lots of things work.  If I have a herniated or ruptured disc, irritating a nerve root, how are chiropractic adjustments going to help?  They may help temporarily but it seems to me that material or tissue needs to be moved or removed to take pressure of the nerve.  This seems common sense to me.  But I'm happy to hear the things you know that I do not so I can understand if and how adjustments can work in my case. 

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    Anonymous

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    Like in criminal law...the "burden of proof" falls on the prosecution, not on the defendant.  So it is you who are prosecuting the existence of "Subluxation" that is responsible for providing evidence that it does not exist.  



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    Anonymous

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    Wow you are the exact reason we as a country are so sick.  You might as well be a Medical Doctor for God's sake.  You endorse everything they are and promote so why dont you take a couple extra years and become an MD so you dont have to infect our profession with your garbage, scientific-dogma.  You have obviously never researched vaccination or you would know why he doesnt promote them like unknowing MD's do.  Do you know that most MD's are totally unaware of the ingredients in vaccines, that they are taught and trained by Pharma Reps to prescribe their drugs?  You havent a clue.  



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    Drew Jamison DC

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    Dr. Mirtz, 

    I can't wipe the smile off of my face after reading your quote. You're one of my favorite people in chiropractic. I appreciate your voice. 



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